The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Karaoke People: Talking with Brenden Kumarasamy on how karaoke can improve your public speaking skills

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Karaoke People

Adam Wainwright: Hello and welcome back to the greatest song ever song poorly. The podcast that takes karaoke exactly as seriously as it should be taken. I'm your very well equipped karaoke host Adam Wainwright.

Ed Cunard: And I am flying by the seat of my pants Ed Cunard.

Adam Wainwright: Speaking of flying by the seat of your pants. Ed I know maybe you weren't necessarily flying, but you flew to a new location like metaphorically this week. I know you were in Cincinnati. I heard the karaoke scene was wild. Please tell me about it.

Ed Cunard: Cincinnati may be one of the best karaoke cities in the country. And I have slept on it for far too long. Uh, I hit so many different bars and such a variety of bars that the trip, even if the work stuff wasn't great. And even if the horrific spider bite wasn't great, the karaoke was great. I hit an upscale place that had a nice young hip crowd that had the best sound that I've ever had at a karaoke bar.

I hit a great punk rock queer type bar that was more fun than I've ever had at karaoke before. And then I found the greatest karaoke dive bar in the history of karaoke dive bars. And at some point in the near future, we are going to talk to the guy who runs karaoke there. At some point in the slightly further future, I will take you to Cincinnati so we can do it together.

Adam Wainwright: definitely wanna do this and what I need you to do right now, because we're not shy about such things. And if we believe in such things passionately, it's not the name, drop, drop some fucking names for the people. So they know if they're in Cincinnati where they can go.

Ed Cunard: So if you are in Cincinnati, the upscale younger, great sounding bar is called the Drinkery it's downtown. If you would like a queer punk rock type experience, Mixwell's on the north side. And if you want the perfect absolute pinnacle of karaoke dive bars, you need to hit Poor Michaels just outside of Fairfield.

Adam Wainwright: I saw clips from poor Michael Jo on Snapchat. And I literally can't wait to go to this place. Uh, ed was telling me before we started recording that this is exactly my type of karaoke bar, and I know exactly what to comprised of. I have a picture in my head based on both the videos from Snapchat and that description of it that I'm literally like the, the hairs on my arm are standing up in just anticipation of going to this place.

And it was awesome. And it looked like it was a great trip.

Ed Cunard: It was a great trip, Adam, but I think you have some good and bad things you

Adam Wainwright: At the same time you were in Cincinnati, I took a trip to Atlantic city for the weekend. My fiance was at her bachelorette party. Me and a couple friends decided we're gonna venture to Atlantic city.

My feelings like casinos are weird sometimes, and it can be overwhelmed. But what I did find was like, okay, so we're looking for dinner and we decided we're gonna go get wings. And there's a place that had great Yelp reviews. We go to a place called WingCraft in Atlantic city. And I'm here to tell you, people do not go to WingCraft in Atlantic city, do not go there.

The wings were not good. You got seven for an obscene price. And the service was not great. It was a poor experience, but we were bullied the next day as we were venturing around and we made our trip to the best Irish pub in the world is what they proclaim themselves to be on the boardwalk. And they're pretty damn good.

The place was called pick a Lilly pub right on the Atlantic city boardwalk, that advertised that they had the best wings anywhere ever.

Ed Cunard: Were they the best wings anywhere ever.

Adam Wainwright: Hell. No, they weren't. But they were the best wings in Atlantic city. At the moment, they were better than WinCraft. And the best part about it was they were cheap. The bar was divey, the beers were cheap. We each got like seven wings and drank four beers. And our tab was like $33 and Atlantic city that's fucking wildly cheap.

But what I was really intrigued by, which kind of leads us into the rest of the episode was the phrase, the best wings anywhere ever. So our topic for this, episode we're gonna talk to somebody. Who's gonna talk a little bit about the relationship between public speaking and karaoke.

Ed, what are, what are some of the, the traits that make a great karaoke-er. Is that a good word, a karaoke-er.

Ed Cunard: a terrible word. Come up with a better word. Yeah. No, that's awful.

Adam Wainwright: Great karaoke-er is what I'm gonna use the rest of the episode, just cuz it's gonna annoy the living shit outta Ed this entire time. But I think personally, we're gonna discuss this more at length.

Is that the part of being a great karaoke year is just a little bit of swagger. So thinking you're the best singer anywhere ever, it could be an essential part of karaoke and that's gonna lead us into this week's karaoke trivia bullpen. And in case you didn't know, here's what you'll get five questions based on the episodes topic with varying degrees of difficulty.

Each question is worth one point to the top score for any round is five points. Ed, you forget about this. Sometimes I forget about it. Sometimes if you get stuck can ask for a hint. I got you. I'll give you a hint. My man, even though you got five last time, so you don't really need the hints. But even if you get all the questions wrong, you can still win by answering the impossible question, get that one, right.

And you get all five points, but remember, even if you save your hint there, no hints in the impossible bonus. Ed, if I were to tell you that today's trivia is going to be about the ego and being the best anywhere ever, how many do you think you're gonna get? Right.

 I think you can get three for sure. I think you're gonna get the first one for sure. And I think I give you at least two of the other ones, but are, are you ready for the, for the stinger that I have prepared for this

Ed Cunard: This is my favorite part of any of our host recordings. So yes.

Adam Wainwright: great ed? So here's what I'm leading into this particular trivia session with.

times out of 10, we sing karaoke poorly. Thus spawn the title of this program. word trivia. Means the question in this case, we question ed for points.

And that's what I'm bringing to the table. Ed, how do you feel about that?

Ed Cunard: Was that A Tribe Called Quest riff?

Adam Wainwright: Well, maybe it depends because the first question is the singer I just played is a Pardy of an epilogue of a song, name, the song and the artist.

Ed Cunard: The artist is a tribe called quest. The song is.

Adam Wainwright: I am not giving half points this time. And remember you have a hint ed

Ed Cunard: I know we have a hit, but I know that I know this. So I'm going to, uh, hold it. It's "Award Tour."

Adam Wainwright: It's "Award Tour." Yeah. It ties in the best anywhere ever. You have to give out some awards. Right? So it's "Award Tour" A Tribe Called Quest that was my take on the ending, the epilogue of award tour from a tribe called quest. I thought I'd bring to you today. I hope you enjoyed it, ed.

Ed Cunard: I was really looking forward to you singing and I was sad until I realized what you were

Adam Wainwright: What I was doing. Yeah. Okay. So here's how we're gonna approach trivia today. I, I mentioned before we start recording that this is gonna be a little bit different, except for the impossible question, I don't have a traditional trivia question for you today. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to read you two to three quotes from different musicians, just talking about themselves and you need to tell me who said these quotes.

Ed Cunard: I'm fucked.

Adam Wainwright: I think you're gonna do fine. Ed. I tried to weave in some hints okay. Into the quotes and make sure that there were certain things included. So you're like for the most part, you're always gonna have a timeline. So that should help. And that's the only clue I'm gonna give you at the top. So in 2009, this artist said, God chose me. He made a path for me. I am God's vessel, but my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live. And then in 2013, this artist said, I am Warhol. I am the number one most impactful artist of our generation. I am Shakespeare in the flesh, Walt Disney, Nike, Google ed, who said those quotes.

Ed Cunard: That has to be Kanye. Right.

Adam Wainwright: It is Kanye west said those quotes. There it is. Ed. You got, see, see, you can handle this,

right.

Ed Cunard: All right. That's so that's

Adam Wainwright: you're up to two points now cuz the first question was award tour by a tribe quest. Yep. So onto the next one. In 1983, when asked an American bandstand, what their, ambitions may be, they replied to rule the world before that in 1981, they told vanity fair.

I am my own experiment. I am my own work of arts. And in 2007 they told Sirius XM, for me, the best thing in the world is to see something or hear something and go, damn, I wish I did that. Damn. I wish I could do that. That's inspiring. I wanna be like Gandhi and Luther king and John Lennon, but I wanna stay ed who said those quotes.

Ed Cunard: I am gonna ask the hint on this one, because I feel like I got like a half hint there, but I was like, this can't be right.

Adam Wainwright: Okay, ed. I'm glad you used the hint. Cause I think the hints gonna help a lot. Okay. What are you thinking before we go into it?

Ed Cunard: When you said about ruling the world. And the timeframe I'm like is this is, is this tears for fears?

Adam Wainwright: Well, ed, let me play this clip for you and you're gonna get, I I'm picking a random song here and you're gonna get 10 seconds of this audio clip. That's gonna help you with the artist. Okay. you looking at?

Ed Cunard: oh, it's fucking Madonna.

Adam Wainwright: It's fucking Madonna. And it's fucking Madon. That quotes, the 2007 quotes about, I want to be like Gandhi and Martin Luther king and John Lennon, but I wanna stay alive. Jesus Christ. Madonna like, what the fuck. So on the next one, you've used your hints. I feel I've regret telling you, you had a hint, but that's fine.

 Our next artist at, in 2007 at a live earth concert, they said everyone who did not arrive on a private jet, put your hands in the air. And at their band's first gig in 1978, they said we're blank. And we wanna be the band to dance to when the bomb drops. And since they were never apologetic about the band's party lifestyle, they told New York Newsday that I feel sorry for the nineties, because it was never able to be anything much more than the hangover to the party.

That was the eighties. And. Name, either the person who said these quotes or the band,

Ed Cunard: Is that Motley crew?

Adam Wainwright: it was not Motley crew. The person who said it was Simon Labon, who is the lead singer of Duran Duran. And on two question number five, the final one. So in 2010, this artist is quoted as saying, some people are just born stars. You either have it, or you haven't. And I was definitely born one. They were also quoted saying this to New York magazine.

I know if this is too much, but I can actually mentally give myself an orgasm and they added, the lower east side has an arrogance stench. We walk and talk and live and breathe who we are with such an incredible stench that eventually the stench becomes a reality. Our vanity is a positive thing. It made me the woman I am today. Ed name, the artist

Ed Cunard: Is it lady Gaga. I feel like

Adam Wainwright: it's lady Gaga, ed. Well done way to work through it. That was great. So you got four or five there, like I appreciate a different way. You did a great job, buddy. You did a great job, but you can go for 5 0 5 right now with the impossible question. Are you ready for this? Try to get 5 0 5 again for two weeks in a row. yeah, exactly. Why start now? So at this one's gonna be structured like a traditional trivia question, just so you know, Because I wanna talk about one of the most egotistical personalities in history, and that is John Wilkes Booth. Now John Wilkes Booth came from a theatrical family with a rich pedigree. Booth was a noted actor, Confederate sympathizer, and most notably in a assassin. Now John wilts booth is most recognized for the assassin in part, but I wanna take a second to focus on his acting career. now his career began at the age of 17 and August 14th, 1855. When he portrayed Earl of Richmond in Richard II and was booed off stage when he couldn't remember his lines.

Now his career took a sharp upward turn on October 15th, 1958, uh, during the production of Hamlet, when his more famous brother, Edwin who portrayed the Titla character, pulled John who played her ratio on stage and shouted. I think he's done quite well. Don't you and was met with thunder applause. Now Boo's career would span 10 years, which he would be called everything from a natural genius on stage to it being said that he was too impatient for hard study and his brilliant talents had failed a full development.

Now on April 14th, 1865, he shot president Lincoln in the head at Ford's Theater in Washington, DC, which as it turns out was also the site of his last performance as an actor on March 18th, 1865. Ed, the question I posed to you is this, what play did booth perform in on that date? And what role did he play in that play?

Ed Cunard: So knowing what I know about the booth brothers, I, I, I feel like it almost has to be Shakespeare. I feel like it has to be a tragedy I am going with, did he play MacDuff in Macbeth? Kayas

Adam Wainwright: He may have played McDuff and McBeth, but it wasn't at this performance, actually, ed, if you really wanna know the last performance he did with his brothers, was actually Julius Caesar.

He actually played Anthony. He played Anthony in Julius Caesar, not Brutus who was his favorite Shakespeare character of all time. But that's not the correct answer the answer to this particular question. the play he performed in on March 18th, 1865 at the Fords theater was a play called the Apostate and he played duke Pescara.

Ed Cunard: Yeah, no way I was getting that

Adam Wainwright: Yeah. That's the point of the impossible question. Welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me, ed. You did great though. Four outta five's not bad.

Ed Cunard: I will take it. I

Adam Wainwright: yeah, I hope you enjoyed the way, the kind of flavor. I brought the trivia. but enough of that ed introduce the people to our main segment today.

Ed Cunard: If there is a fault in our podcast, it is that we do not give you our loyal listeners, real solid, actionable advice. So today, Because we are speaking to Brendan Kumarasamy a noted public speaker and coach who helps people be more effective communicators. Today, we are focusing on the seven habits of highly effective karaoke people.

Adam Wainwright: Is that just to correct? You

Ed Cunard: I will not say that. That sounds very wrong. You

Adam Wainwright: okay. We'll go with karaoke people today. I'm gonna keep saying karaoke-ers it's now going to be just like it's, it's Canon in the podcast. I'm gonna keep using it.

Ed Cunard: are just trying to get another branded t-shirt with your face on it.

Adam Wainwright: I do love the branded t-shirts with my face on it, but that's beside the point. Ed, there's seven habits of highly effective karaoke people. Not karaoke-ers, everybody, but karaoke people. Ed what's number one.

Ed Cunard: For God's sakes. Just clap.

Adam Wainwright: Ooh, I like it. What does that mean?

Ed Cunard: Think about it this way. Adam, if on an average night, the karaoke rotation is 10 to 20 singers, right?

 That means functionally. You are only five to 10% of the music on any given night. If you want to be a highly effective karaoke person, engage in that other 90 to 95% of the time. Clap cheer, hoot, holler.

Be present the entire night.

Adam Wainwright: I, I like this one and I'm glad we set her on this as being number one, ed, because I think this is an important part of it. And I think we tend to lose scope in our own like narrow view of the world that we're just so concerned about singing and what we're gonna sing and what comes next. So we forget that by just clapping.

Like, even if you're disengaged. If you make your hands go in a clapping motion and make noise when somebody is done, you're actually adding to the experience for everybody that night. So I'm glad we said, unless you're number one for, for God's sake, just clap

Ed Cunard: What about number two, Adam.

Adam Wainwright: Okay. So to be a highly affected karaoke people, I think you just need to read the room and what we mean by read the room is that. if the tempo's up, if it's an up tempo night, if it's a party night, we don't need to know like the sound of silence. We don't need that disturbed sound of silence. At that moment, we don't need fucking Leonard Cohen. We don't need some of the shit that ed and I have been known to do at the end of the night.

 read the room, make your song choices that feed into the energy of the night. Don't be the person that disrupts the energy, cuz you're so stuck in what you wanna sing, that you're not gonna contribute to everybody else. It's selfish. It's not appreciated, right, ed?

Ed Cunard: you really think about them. Choose one of those instead of Suzanne.

Adam Wainwright: We're not, we're not saying. You can't do a sad song. Sad songs can fit into an up tempo night. It's just that like, God, listen to it in your head and say, if I always had a party, would I want to hear this?

Ed Cunard: three is

Adam Wainwright: But if it's a sad night, if it's a night where everybody's. It's a melancholy mood. Everybody wants to be cathartic.

They're getting their demons out and shit like that. Don't be like, that's the night that I'm gonna be like, well, I'm gonna sing "Backstreet's Back." All right. Like no guy. No, no, but you know what? If you are that type of person, that's gonna slack backstreets back, right. You may really wanna listen to number three cause what's number three, ed. Oh, good Lord. Please do this.

Ed Cunard: want people at karaoke to have a good time. we do not wanna stop you from drinking. We just want you to drink within your limits. If your limit is zero, you are still more than welcome to be there and drink water and hang out and give a ride home to your friend who clearly had too much to drink. But don't get to the point where you can't function on a microphone where you will drop said microphone, which probably costs a hundred dollars to the guy hosting it, where you will engage in less than socially positive pursuits with other people in the bar.

Meaning, you know, you get kind of creepy, you get kind of violent, like don't do any of that. Like know where your limit is and don't drink even near that point. Like not even past it don't even get to it.

Adam Wainwright: Yeah. And we're not saying like, to be very clear, we're not saying don't drink for God's sake, ed and I like an essential part of ed and I going to karaoke at this point is having some drinks. Having some beers, having a little bit of whiskey, like it all depends on the night. If I feel and frisky, I, I just made some kind of really bad Dr.

Seuss rhyme right there. And I instantly regret it, but I'm gonna keep talking anyway. And we're not saying don't drink. We're not we're we're not saying that, but as a general rule, I would say you can disagree with me or not ed that if you can't read your text messages, you shouldn't be singing karaoke.

Is that a good role or do, would you take one step further,

Ed Cunard: would adjust it slightly cuz half the time I can't read my text messages without my glasses and I don't wear them all

Adam Wainwright: but that's cuz you're blind like this I'm talking about for a different reason other than eyesight.

Ed Cunard: For that reason then yes.

Adam Wainwright: We're just gonna move on to number four. We're gonna leave it at that. If you can't read your text messages, you shouldn't be singing karaoke, but still have a couple drinks. If you want to,

Ed Cunard: so Adam, please enlighten us. What is number four?

Adam Wainwright: me tell you a tale. and I will simplify this down. So people have a clear number four, but let me tell you a tale of Stevie. Stevie got up to sing karaoke. It was a great night. Everybody was clapping along. Nobody had ever drank, like they were going along with the theme of the night, which we'll say is a party night.

And Stevie gets up there and they're gonna, they're gonna contribute. They know better. They wanna sing a party song, say they sing some party rock Anthem. Because that just seems like the most logical choice on a party night. They sing some party rock Anthem. And what they do is they hold the microphone close to their chest and they whisper and they're very coy on stage and they don't move around a whole lot.

What are they not doing there? Ed? What would you say they're not doing

Ed Cunard: They are not owning the stage. Adam

Adam Wainwright: no. That stage is theirs. When you sing karaoke, when you are on that stage, that stage is yours for the time that you're there own it. That's your piece of property. Do what you do. Engage the people pretend like it's your own backyard, your own television screen for God's sake on the stage

Ed Cunard: just do something that stakes your claim. You have that stage for three to five minutes, roughly you don't have to walk around the entire bar and engage everybody, but you have to make your presence know, not just with your voice, but with the way that you are commanding those three to five minutes.

Adam Wainwright: make such a difference. Just like being engaged in some aspect and not, and making the stage a little bit your own and you don't have to move to make the stage your own. I think there there's times where if the song you're singing leads you to sit and there are certain songs that I will like if I have a stool available to me, the sing hurt, I will pull up a stool and I will sink hurt, but it's intentional.

I'm owning the stage for the song choice that I have. So I'm gonna say number four, it's gonna be owning that stage for the seven habits of highly effective karaoke people. Oh, ed number five.

Ed Cunard: just need to be open to new experiences and new people.

Adam Wainwright: Ed, what does that mean though? Like what does that mean?

Ed Cunard: Well, think about this. I just got back from a very long, very arduous work trip. I, at that point knew three people in that city.

Adam Wainwright: Okay.

Ed Cunard: I've come back knowing at least 15 more. And you know why at karaoke, I am the friendliest I ever am. I met people who I otherwise might not have become friendly with.

And I became a part of these nights. And karaoke is more than anything else about the other people you are there with, whether you came with friends or whether you show up at a bar by yourself, and everyone's a stranger because it is a mix tape that you guys are all collaborating on together.

Adam Wainwright: I don't think I've ever heard anything so beautiful as, describing a karaoke night as a mixed tape in which you're all collaborating together.

I think it's beautiful. That's a beautiful sentiment and that wouldn't have happened if you closed yourself off. You can go to karaoke and close yourself off. I've done it. Like people do it, like it happens. I just think you're, you're shutting a very, important social door if you do so.

Ed Cunard: if we are talking about these seven habits of highly effective karaoke people,

you will be more effective if you are open to other experiences and other people.

Adam Wainwright: Yeah, people will engage with you in a different way, it will bring us to number six, actually, number six is be someone others want to be around. I think this ties very closely number five. So it kind of makes logical sense and why by this, we mean being open to experiences and just bring energy and present yourself in the best light.

 You could break this down and how all the different layers of these seven tie into each other. And I think they all contribute to it, but what number six really comes down to is just be the person other people wanna be around. And I'm not saying frame yourself for other people. That's not what I'm saying.

Cuz I think that Rob's, if something is robbed from a karaoke night, if you're trying to imagine what other people wanna be around, be unabashedly brave to be yourself. I think if you do that, you're gonna be somebody who wants to be around.

Ed Cunard: not only that, but consider self policing that karaoke night, we've all been to karaoke nights where somebody was kind of obnoxious, kind of heckling, be the person willing to speak up and say, Hey, that's not cool, man.

Adam Wainwright: And you're gonna win friends that way. You really are. Just by being yourself and speaking up and being an advocate, the karaoke DJ will fucking love you. They'll fucking love you. If you just step up and say some shit, if somebody's being disruptive and you, you say something, so they don't have to, cuz they're getting paid, they're trying to like maintain.

If you are the person that steps up, God damnit that karaoke DJ is gonna fucking love you forever, , just be someone others wanna be around. and I know you don't do a lot of the number seven. But I think it's an important part of being a highly effective karaoke slash karaoke people.

Ed Cunard: Number seven. We are calling practice makes not as bad usually. And the thing I will say, Adam is I, I do practice. I don't practice my songs, but we've been doing this together for nearly a decade and a half. And that is nothing but not practice. It might not be the practice of practicing a specific song to be better at it.

But in that 15 years, I've learned how microphones work. I've learned how speakers work, I've learned what to do and what not to do in any given situation with audio visual equipment. And that is a form of practice. Like I am not going to cup a mic. I am not going to hold it all the way out from my chest.

If, it's not set that hot that I have to, I'm also not going to put it in my mouth. Like I'm fellating it. And that is all things I've learned. From our time doing it together. So that is functionally practiced, but I think you mean

Adam Wainwright: think I wanna validate what you're saying. Cause I think that does qualify as practice. And I think it's something that we just become accustomed to and that's kind of how we practice, but I am referring to practicing your songs and whatever practice means to you, whether it be understanding mic technique or feelings at the bar or anything that we discussed, what it means to be uniquely you and open to people.

 I, I think whatever. Tends to, but just practice and repetition makes perfect like every now and then if there's a song that I really wanna do at karaoke, but like I have nerves about it because I like the song I will practice it. I'll record myself singing it. I'll listen back. I'll see if I can make the adjustments.

And if I can actually do it at karaoke, if somebody asks me to do that song karaoke, I'll sing it anyway. But it may not be a song that I choose to do with karaoke. If I'm not like, if I don't like the way I sound on it, or if I discover there's just notes, I can't hit, it happens with musical theater a lot, but I think you're absolutely correct too in saying that practice is just going and doing and practicing all these principles. And I think if you could put all these together, you're gonna be an incredibly effective karaoke person that people are gonna wanna be around. You're gonna contribute to the night ed, do what I think we should summarize. Ed, can you just summarize the seven that we mention.

Ed Cunard: Absolutely. So number one for God's sakes, just clap. Number two, read the room. Number three, drink responsibly. Number four. Own that stage. Number five, be open to experiences and people. Number six, be someone others want to be around. And number seven practice makes not that bad. Usually

Adam Wainwright: believe in a lot of these, I think this is a great list and I think it's a great starting point for anybody who wants to become a more effective karaoke or

ed

Ed Cunard: person.

Adam Wainwright: karaoke, karaoke person, tomato motto. Let's just cue the guitar and move onto our interview

Interview: Brenden Kumarasamy

Ed Cunard: Everyone knows that public speaking is one of the most common fears people list having, but that may just because public singing isn't an option on those surveys. Our guest today knows how intimidating both public speaking and public singing can be.

He's the founder of MasterTalk and coaches, people all over the world on becoming better, more effective communicators. And while he can speak three languages, he can sing karaoke in .Eight Brendan Kumarasamy, welcome to "The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly)!"

Brenden Kumarasamy: That was the best introduction ever. Thanks so much, ed. It's great to be here, Adam and ed. Thanks for having me.

Adam Wainwright: Brandon. We just wanna make you feel special the minute you walk into our space and now you that you're in our podcast space. We figured we hype you up and just jump right into it. I don't waste any time. What I demand to know right now is what's your background? What's your karaoke origin story.

How did you get started on this journey called karaoke?

Brenden Kumarasamy: So when I was in high school, I, I watch and I still watch this to this day. There's a genre of cartoons and TV shows called anime. So anime is kind of like Japanese. Style TV shows.

Think of Pokemon, Yugioh, Digimon. A lot of these shows were originally Japanese and then were translated later into English. But the thing is, and don't worry, this is going somewhere, the opening and the ending of a lot of these shows, if you watch the original version are in Japanese. So that's how I first got started with languages that were not my own.

So I was kind of listening to these shows. And then after, when I got into college, I started hanging around the Asian, Chinese community a lot, because I used to play video game called league of legends. And that's, that's something I was pretty crazy, almost competitive almost, and a lot of these Asian guys.

And it's no offense to them. They're amazing. They just like doing karaoke. So one of those nights we were playing video games in like a club in college and then just, Hey, do you wanna go out tonight? And. I don't really go out. I play video games, but sure. What do you guys wanna do? Are we going to like dinner or something?

Like, no, we're going to karaoke bar. I was like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, we're gonna sing. And I, and I said, no, initially, but after the third or fourth time they asked me, I said, you know what? All of my friends are Asian and this is the only thing that they do. So I might as well start doing that.

That's how I learned how to, how to do karaoke. And I've been obsessed ever since.

Ed Cunard: you said no to something social. If I had to guess.

Brenden Kumarasamy: I still say no a couple of times, but, but yes, I've definitely said yes a lot more since then, for

Ed Cunard: So the thing that blows my mind that we mentioned in the intro is that, okay, it's already amazing that you speak three languages, but you can sing karaoke in eight languages. What are they? And which one is your favorite to sing in? And which one is the most challenging?

Brenden Kumarasamy: So let me just summarize for the audience. I speak English, French and Tamil also I can obviously karaoke in those three and then outside of those three, I can do five other languages, but let me be super clear.

I can't do. Every song like Mandarin, I could do like one or two songs. Japanese. I can do a strong, robust collection. So it varies a lot. So bear with me. Spanish is one of them, Japanese Hindi, Korean and Mandarin are the five other ones.

My favorite one is, probably Korean. I'm pretty solid in Korean and, and it always surprises people. So I like that one in Spanish too

Adam Wainwright: Well, we're not letting you off the hook, which one's the most difficult.

Brenden Kumarasamy: difficult, definitely Korean. And the reason Korean is a lot harder is because once again, remember team, so people are listening to this carefully. I speak through like karaoke. I don't know how to speak the other five languages. So I'm not like listening to some guy talking Korean and going like, okay, completely understand what they're saying.

Like, no, I, I have no idea what they're saying. I'm. Going off of the pronunciation Spanish is way easier for me because I know how to speak English and French fluently. So it's the same pronunciation, but Korean's like a whole other dictionary. So, yeah.

Ed Cunard: I can fumble through exactly one song in Japanese, just cause I know it really well, but I'm, I'm sure I'm not saying the right words. I'm just approximating the sounds of "Sukiyaki" by Kyu Sakamoto. I don't think I sing anything in any other languages. What about you?

Adam Wainwright: Oh, no, I don't. I've attempted, I think I'd like to take a crack at a French song one day. I think I might be able to hold that one together, but I've tried, I think as somebody put me on a pedestal where I had to sing something in Spanish once, and it was, as much of a train wreck, as you can possibly imagine.

but Brendan, I have a question for you. Okay. So, you know, there's that chicken of the egg question, like which one came first, the chicken or the egg. for you, which one came first, public speaking or karaoke?

Brenden Kumarasamy: very Okie actually came first, oddly enough, because I started speaking professionally probably and coaching and all that stuff. And I was like 19 or 20, but me and karaoke have a long history. I mean, technically I think I started doing karaoke and I was 16, 17, actually. And it's funny. I was able to tie it in later into what I ended up doing in life.

 But yes, karaoke did come first. Yeah.

Ed Cunard: And we will share the video of you saying how karaoke can make you a better public speaker.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, that was a random video. I didn't even know how that came up.

Ed Cunard: But what I wanna know is what is the relationship for you between karaoke and public speaking?

Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure. So initially there wasn't one, let's be honest guys. I was kind of just doing karaoke for fun, but later what ended up happening was when I started making the YouTube videos and I started running out of ideas to be quite Frank here. I mean, there's only what else can you talk about? Fill of words, ums and ahhs... I started creating a new series called.

This versus that, which is like communication. I, I, I have one like rappers, I have another one in like train rides. I was sitting on a train once to Toronto. And I was like, huh, there should be like a correlation between presentations and train rides. And I just wrote some shit up and it just made sense.

So what, what ended up having karaoke? It was more rather kind of a chicken and egg thing. It really came after. Right. And what I realized. Is karaoke, especially in languages that are not, native to you. It actually improves your pronunciation, your ability to articulate in your first language a lot more effectively.

 So it's an advanced lesson. Let me give you an example right now. So if I go to Japanese right now, Ohio G the sky, or if I say something in Italian, like, or if I do something like in Spanish, Or whatever notice I'm switching languages really quickly, but my pronunciation is staying super clear. Not that you guys would know, obviously we were not fluent at the other one, but the, the key is because I'm learning to pronounce words.

I don't even understand when I go back to English, my pronunciation is a lot better, so that's, that's the lesson I got from it.

Adam Wainwright: dope. Actually, I, I never honestly like looked at it that way and kind of put those pieces together because I mean, I don't like to brag but I consider myself a pretty damn good public speaker. I I've been working on and honing my craft, but I know there are a lot of challenges that people have with public speaking.

 What do you find in your experiences through coaching the videos, talking to people? What's the biggest challenge people have with public speaking.

Brenden Kumarasamy: And, and I find Adam, it ties so well with the theme of this podcast, because the biggest problem, frankly, guys, is we see it as a chore. We don't see it as something fun to do like karaoke. So I'll give you an example, where do we learn how to speak? Well, we learn how to speak in the education system. We're presenting in high school, in middle school, in elementary.

That's why you learn how to communicate and give presentations. But all of those presentations, Ed and Adam, have three main problems. The first one is all of them are mandatory. Unlike karaoke, karaoke, something we choose to do. It's fun. It's like, yeah, this is cool. But when it comes to presentations, nobody wakes up in the morning and says, Hey, you guys wanna get breakfast and like eat broccoli, pizza and present all day.

Like nobody says that. Right. Except maybe ed or something?

Adam Wainwright: would be me. I think, I think ed and I might be the two people that would say that, but continue. I'm sorry.

Brenden Kumarasamy: It's it's literally you two and like me and that's it. So that's one number two, all of the presentations guys that we learn in the education system are different. Well, we never get to pick the topic either. It's never like, what are you too excited about? You guys excited about cooking or, karaoke or sharing your voice.

Now you gotta talk about Shakespeare and you gotta deal with it. So I was like, okay. And then there's problem. Number three, which is the worst one. Every presentation is tied to a punishment. Like, if you don't do well on a, in a karaoke song, which happens 97% of the time. No, the guy who owns the karaoke bar doesn't come in and says, you too outta here, get outta here.

Don't come back. Like nobody's saying that definitely. Especially with me when I'm singing like Korean songs, like what the hell is brown guy doing, saying, get outta here right now. Like people just clap and you just move on. Whereas we don't have that mindset in communication.

Ed Cunard: Going along with that and that mindset. Why do you think people struggle so much and have such a fear of it?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. So then going on that analogy, ed, what happens is over time as every presentation we do is mandatory. Every presentation we do is different. Every presentation we do is tied to a punishment. Well, those are the memories that last for the rest of our life. Let me make a different argument.

Why are you two such great communicators? My educational guess is quite simple, cuz you don't see communication as something that is a chore. You see it as something fun. So when you do karaoke and you, you go into a podcast, you're like, this is fun. Like I get to learn, I get to share a message. But unfortunately that is not the, the general sentiment around communication around how to speak.

And that's really the challenge and why people struggle with it is when they see it as a chore as like doing the dishes, they don't get better at it.

Ed Cunard: So, for me, my background is in academia, and twenty years in sales 15 years in karaoke. And I am one of those rare people who is nearly a hundred percent extroverted. So yes, talking to a whole bunch of people all at once is kind of my ideal. It's how I would recharge my batteries. And I know Adam, you probably have a similar thing with what you do.

Adam Wainwright: it's a little bit. For me, one of my biggest hobbies is theater. But that's not necessarily public speaking cuz you learn a disassociation in theater. Like you disassociate yourself from the audience because you're living in the world that you're creating on stage, which I think. This ties into karaoke and public speaking in a way for me, because what the biggest advantage I have as a public speaker is that when I step in front of a room, I have a message I wanna deliver.

And I don't care what you think about it. Like, I want you to respond positively. I know I have the tools that you're gonna respond positively, but at the end of the day, all I can do is control how I'm presenting myself, how I'm articulating my argument. And how I'm engaging you. I can control what I can control.

I can't control your thoughts. And that's one of the lessons I learned a long time ago, because I think I'm a little bit I'm so an extrovert, but I'm a little bit more introverted than ed, because I don't need people in a room to have energy, but that's one of the biggest things. I, I just learned the disassociation with the audience and controlling what I can control and let everybody think what they're gonna think.

So let's say I wanna become a better public speaker, cuz I always wanna become a better public speaker, Brenden. And since you're a pro I'm just an amateur enthusiast, what are some daily exercises that I can do to practice communication and get better at it?

Brenden Kumarasamy: I mean, to be honest, guys, you two very solid as, as communicators, . You mentioned something really key Adam, and funny enough, I also have a video on theater as well. I'm, I'm definitely not an enthusiast. Like you are, I've done like two or three improv sessions, but one of the things that is, that is important to point out with theater is that's an experience that you're also opting in.

So, no, one's like the police isn't coming to your house, putting handcuffs on you and saying you have to do theater. No, it's like, it's a, it's an experience you're choosing to do. And the mindset a lot of the theater kids have growing up is they see communication and public speaking. As a way to entertain the audience as a way to give a performance as a way to create impact for the people who are coming out on a Friday night, a Thursday night to watch like a play or to watch a show or performance.

And that's actually why even if a lot of people in theater actually happen to be introverts, funny enough, as you probably know yourself, they're able to actually circumvent that entirely. Why? Because their frame of reference. Around communication is different. Whereas everyone outside of theater or a lot of fields like that, they see communication as a chore.

So I'm glad you threw that out there. It's a great analogy. So jumping into the, the daily public speaking tips, I'll give one at a time. So I'm not monologing too long here. So there's three. So the first one is called the random word exercise. So the random word exercise is fairly simple. Guys. All you have to do is you pick a random word, like water bottle, like lemonade, like eye contact.

Like wall and you give random presentations out of thin air. And what I always like to say is if we can make sense out of nonsense, we can make sense out of anything. So pick five random words, give five random presentations, do it every day and you'll get better.

Adam Wainwright: A lot of improv principles are based off of, concepts like that actually, where it's a random word and you play a word association going down the line. Brendan, have you ever played Jackbox games per chance? Do you know what I'm talking about? Like the, the get together and you, play Quiplash or any of those games, you know what I'm talking about?

It's a social game that became very popular during the pandemic. You can download it on steam or Xbox or PlayStation or anything like that. And all it is it's social games that you can play with friends. you can stream them or you can play 'em in the same room, but what popped into my head is one of them is actually.

A thing where everybody enters their prompts and then you select a random prompts and somebody controls the pictures that are peering with your PowerPoint presentation, and you need to give a PowerPoint presentation on whatever it is that pops up there and tie those pictures in somehow. So it kind of really flexes those public speaking muscles and thinking on the fly your, your random words.

That's exactly what popped in my head. I'll I'll have to send you to link. After we wrap up here,

Brenden Kumarasamy: We play a game similar to that called PowerPoint karaoke, but it's way harder. It's literally you have, it could be about anything. And it could be like a picture of a giraffe. It could be a picture of a goose and you have to like create presentation at, but I will say I wouldn't recommend that for beginners.

 I wouldn't start there. I'd probably just pick a random word to have fun with it.

Ed Cunard: Now I just wanna go up to Canada and take Adam with me and play that with you, cuz I think that sounds like a lot of. So, I mean, Adam's a little bit more introverted than I am and more introverted than I assume you are, but he's not quite an introvert, but I know there's probably some people who listen to us who do fall towards the more introverted side of things.

Do you have any advice for them specifically on coming outta their shell and speaking to people either on a one-on-one basis or in a group setting?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely ed. So, so in the context of being an introvert, I always like to say you two, that it's important to understand the advantages that one has as an introvert. So, let me give a couple of examples. Number one, introverts are much better at listening because they speak less. On average. They're able to listen effectively to the people that they speak to and adapt the message to their audience more effectively.

Whereas I'm more, I'm similar to you, ed, where I'm very much extroverted. So for me, it's, it's, it wasn't as easy to listen to people cause I always want to be yapping all the time. So that's number one. Number two is introverts are very good at pausing. To emphasize key parts of their message. Extroverts suck at pausing.

It takes a while for us to learn it. And the reason is simple, where we're at an event when we're at a bar and there's a space, we wanna fill it up. Oh, well, uh, what's your vegetarian pizza made out of, or, uh, what's your favorite color? You always wanna fill up that space. Whereas introverts are comfortable in silence, so they don't really care that much.

If they have to pause a little. And finally number three is simply audience's accessibility, which is a bit different. It's a bit counterintuitive. So extroverts, the problem that they sometimes have is they can be controversial. You either like them or you don't Gary, Vaynerchuk's probably the best example of that.

The CEO, Vayner media, he's the kind of guy that you either really like, or you really don't. I personally like the guy, but then you got people like Brene brown. Susan Kane? No, one's saying I hate Bri brown. Cuz if you say that you go to jail, so introverts are more accessible. So understand

Adam Wainwright: Yeah, that's a really great point. And it's something that, you know, it, it just takes a little while to study and pick up on. So I'm glad you kind of brought that to our audience's attention. But let's flip it back to karaoke cuz that's what we're here for. You're a professional. All right.

You're a professional speaker. You're a professional, I think in just everything you do at this point, I have dialed in. You're a professional in everything you do. And I have a feeling. That you're gonna give some great advice right here. Cause we're gonna ask you to give our audience advice.

Okay. So as a professional speaker, what advice do you have for people who wanna make a big impression while performing karaoke? What kind of skills can they bring to the karaoke stage? Make sure it's memorable.

Brenden Kumarasamy: You know what I would say, Adam, for karaoke specifically, which is definitely different advice. I would say the biggest thing that's helped me a lot is presenting the same song over and over again. You gotta practice, you gotta do the reps. Like one thing I did cause I take my karaoke game seriously. So if I'm going to karaoke bar with my Asian friends, I'm practicing in the basement.

Like I'm practicing the songs I'm gonna go was I find a lot of people, karaoke, they get drunk and then they're, they're not as strong. They don't take it seriously at a professional level. Whereas me, it's more like I'm TA I'm putting the Korean songs up, up on the computer and, and I take it super serious.

So when I'm on that stage, I'm, I'm getting the results that I want. That's one piece, the other piece is do the harder thing and I'll tell you what the harder thing is, right. If you can do this, you can be a God at karaoke. And that is simply singing a Sean Paul song.

Adam Wainwright: Oh,

Brenden Kumarasamy: the reason these things are impossible is because the guy is like, you hear something and then you look at the lyrics and you're like, what the fuck?

Like this, it's not the same thing. Like he's saying, like, and then you're like, I ate a banana. You're like, wait, where did the, I didn't hear that. So yeah, if you could sing Sean Paul songs, you're like the best at this day.

Ed Cunard: Now, just as a follow up to that, cuz you've, you've mentioned a lot of stuff with, with Asian karaoke. Do you like that private room environment more with like your group of friends or do you prefer like a stage and a crowd of people you don't know?

Brenden Kumarasamy: don't think I've done. I think I've done the stage environment like once or twice, but it didn't really count because we were all singing together. So we were at a bar and there was like 50 people, but we're like 10 people on the mic. Like at this point everyone's plastered, except for me. Cause I don't drink.

So everyone was just kind of plastered except for me. So that, so it was more just for fun, but yes, you're right. I would say 95% of my karaoke has been in the private, VIP kind of closed doors kind of thing.

Adam Wainwright: let's open some new doors for you right now, Brendan. Okay. And we're gonna transition into our world famous game. Hit me with your best shot. So here's, what's about to happen. We're gonna give you five rapid fire. Mm-hmm rapid fire questions and you just give us the first thing that pops into your head.

Okay. You don't know an explanation to anybody, it's your opinion. Just shout 'em out, let us know and let the world know what you think. Are you ready to play? Great. Number one, what is the best thing you have seen at karaoke?

Brenden Kumarasamy: the friendships. The energy, even the most introverted person gets it really into it after, after a few hours. So I love that

Ed Cunard: Conversely, what's the worst thing you've seen at karaoke.

Brenden Kumarasamy: people getting too drunk sometimes so you're karaoke. You're focus on the people are like passed out in the back. That's what I don't like.

Adam Wainwright: I feel like that's a two-way street, cuz sometimes drunk people make great karaoke and sometimes they create moments like that. So we're on board question number three. What is the one song that you would love to do with karaoke? But you've just never been able to find.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Ooh, that's a tough one. Never been able to find. It would probably have to be a song that's like very Indy. Cause I know a lot of the karaoke bars and stuff, they don't really have a lot of the, the underground music. It, I mean, you guys would even know the song. It would probably be like, uh, This artist named Quan, he's like Korean.

He has a, he has a song that he does with this guy named Marco has like 200 views on YouTube. I'd love to do that one, but nobody, uh, that doesn't exist anywhere. karaoke. And I also know it. I would have to practice it knowing if it was in the catalog.

Ed Cunard: Now imagine that someone kidnapped your entire family and loved ones. And the only way to release them was to wow. The kidnappers with a karaoke performance. What song do you choose?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Oh, easy. I would pick melted by Acton musician. So Acton musician is like a, a sibling, a group in Korea and they sing a very sad song. That's all in Korean and it would just like completely mess them up. So I would do, and they would just be, and by the time they realize what's happening, I've already released the family and we've already gotten ice cream and they're just lost and hypnotized in.

Ed Cunard: is just weaponizing that sadness he's pulling on those heartstrings. I love it.

Adam Wainwright: Love it. I lo I don't think we've ever had anybody say they just confused them with being so awesome. Like, I love that. So

Brenden Kumarasamy: would just get so lost. Why these voice, this brown guy talking in Korean, they'd just be like, they'd be like, what's am I in drugs? Did I have too much or something? And then they would start to question the word existence.

Adam Wainwright: That may be my favorite answer that anybody's given to that question so far. Question number five, that we have to wrap this up. If you could magically strike one song from every karaoke playlist everywhere, forever, which song would you choose?

Brenden Kumarasamy: I, I don't know. The first thing came to mind is like Britney Spears is one more time.

Adam Wainwright: Okay.

Brenden Kumarasamy: don't know why though. I don't know if I'd strike it. I think that's too aggressive, but, but would I want it, would I want it be played more than once on a karaoke night?

No, like let's do it once. And.

Adam Wainwright: Luckily you're in a position where you don't have to actually strike it, but we will by Brittany. We'll see you. No, no more times for Brittany. Okay. That was it. Uh, Brendan, you did great, but as tradition, now you get a chance to fire away, cuz it's only fair. So you could ask ed I any one question that pops in your head and we solemnly swear that we will answer honestly.

So go ahead, Brendan. Fire away.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Oh, that's interesting. I get a question. Okay. Let me ask a messed up question. What are you both pretending not to know.

Ed Cunard: Ooh,

Adam Wainwright: Hm.

Ed Cunard: that's such a good fucking question. I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer this honestly. I might be the most pretentious human being alive. It's quite possible.

Brenden Kumarasamy: no way.

Ed Cunard: uh, yeah, I've worked very hard to hide it, but anyone who's ever dated me will tell you no, he's he's right. He's he's so sometimes I have to hide some things that I do know.

So I don't come across as horribly obnoxious. Like if you ever watched how I met your mother, I'm almost Ted Mosby with the correcting people on how things are pronounced. Like, you don't want to go to a Renaissance festival with me because I will tell you how nothing was called yay. Old, because it's a mistranslation of a letter that no longer exists in the English alphabet, that kind of looks like a Y, but it was called thorn. And it, it was, it was the old, it was not ye and like, I will go off on tangents like that. If I am left to my own devices.

Brenden Kumarasamy: I totally remember that

Adam Wainwright: I would say that I would just in general, I would say I'm a Jack all trades master of none. Where I feel like. For me, I pretend not to know a lot like where I will try to blend in because I have the tools that I can use in any social situation that even if I don't know what's going on, I will pretend to the end of the earth that I do know, and I can be sincere and make you believe that I know exactly what's going on in any situation.

 It's very rare that I feel like I'm out of my element when it comes to a conversation. And if I am out of my element, I can pull it up defensive tools. Like you wouldn't believe that I, I just. It's listening to people the way people speak and what they're placing emphasis on and what are they dialing back to and what is it circling to?

So I can, I can camouflage myself in any situation by latching onto points about something I don't know about. And then echoing I'm like, oh yeah, that was very, very cardio cardiac surgery. I don't I'm wor yeah. Yeah. I'm learning all about cardiac surgery right now. So that's my newest thing that I.

Pretending that I know something of

Ed Cunard: Cardiothoracic surgery and see what I mean about being pretentious. See what I

Adam Wainwright: Yep. We tied it all together. We tied it all together. Just like

Brenden Kumarasamy: I'm shocked that you two answered the question so quickly and very well, actually. So my hat's off to both of.

Ed Cunard: It's it's the years of therapy making me introspective.

Adam Wainwright: I was gonna say hats off to you. Not to you, ed you no, not hats off to you, but hats off to you. Brendan. This is a great interview. I think our audience actually is gonna pull a lot from this interview and we learned some stuff about karaoke. We learned some stuff about public speaking. We just had some fun today.

So thank you so much for being here. Uh, what we like to do at this point is just kind of turn the show over to you. The greatest song ever sung poorly is now your show. So plug whatever you want, send whatever messages you want and take it away. Ed and I are gonna feed it into the background.

Brenden Kumarasamy: so funny. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having this is a super fun episode and, and I got a lot from this and I, you asked me a lot of follow up questions. Now I'll be ready for any future karaoke questions I get asked. So thanks for that. And, and in terms of getting in touch two easy ways to keep in touch, the first one is the YouTube channel.

Just check out, MasterTalk in one word. You'll have access to hundreds of videos, or if you want to come to one of my zoom trainings for a few weeks, just go to rockstar, communicator.com. And then my final word is just a question. The question is simply this guys, how would your life change if you're an exceptional communicator?

A lot of communication is saturated negativity, anxiety, stress. Whereas I see it as a way to make a difference as a way to lead a more fulfilling life. Cause it's the way that we talk to strangers when we travel, right? It's the way that we order food at a restaurant. It's the way that we karaoke and with, with people that we don't really know, that's the point of communication.

So when we dream about it, we'll get the results that we're looking for.

Ed Cunard: I can't think of a better way to finish an episode than that advice. What about you?

Adam Wainwright: And I couldn't agree more, Brendan, thanks again for joining us and hope to see you singing at a screen sometime soon.

End Notes

Adam Wainwright: Dear listener. Hi, it's me, Adam Wainwright. I'm one of the hosts of this here podcast. the greatest song ever sung poorly. You may know me from my website sung poorly.com. Well, I'm here to tell you that on that website, if you type in sun poorly.com into the old browser layer on your computer or your cell phone, because we live in, you know, 20, 22, but if you type into song poorly.com and you look in the little right hand corner, there's gonna be something that says, leave a message.

And we'd really love if you did that. We'd love it even more. If you asked the karaoke related question in that little corner, so it can feature you your beautiful voice and finally do away with Ed's voice together on this podcast. By leaving a question and we can just fill space and time with your voice instead of ed.

And everybody's going to be the better for it. We wanna give you the people, some karaoke advice, and we can only do that. If you, the people leave us a message. We love the responses we've got so far, but we could always use more. So go to sun poorly.com. Ask us a question, leave a message. Did I, did I cover everything?

Ed?

Ed Cunard: did cover everything except what you leave to me, which is to thank Ben Dumm for giving us our theme song are all our little guitar cues. Please check out the Ben Dumm 3 on Spotify, apple music, or any other music streaming platform who

Adam Wainwright: There are so many of them that you can listen to Ben Dumm. So listen to him on all of them. And after you've done with that, make sure you come back next time where we'll be digging into the villain you meet at karaoke night.

Ed Cunard: knows what evil lurks in the hearts of karaoke people. The greatest song ever sung

Adam Wainwright: Oh, ed. We do know all about those karaoke years. That's it? That's all there is no more. So until next time I'm not away. Right? And remember that's singing off key is still technically singing